jonathan dough

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Posts by jonathan dough

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  39

  NEED HELP Proving that 607 BC is false and list of flip-flops

  by doubtful in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  this post is going to seem erratic to some, but i'm afraid it's the best i can do.

  i can only write on this board during the spare moments i have when my mother is not in the home.

  so i need to get as much info in per thread as possible given the time constraints.

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  jonathan dough

  A. Introduction
  
  B. Historical Overview
  
  C. Overview of the Controversy
  
  D. Servitude
  
  E. The seventy-year prophecy at Jeremiah 25:11 did not apply to Jerusalem and Judah alone but to all nations which fell under the domination of the Babylonian Empire. These nations as a unit, comprising the Babylonian Empire collectively, served the king(s) of Babylon seventy years.
  
  F. The servitude referred to at Jeremiah 25:11 whereby the nations which fell under the domination of the Babylonian Empire would serve the king of Babylon seventy years included a) vassalage, b) willing exile, and/or c) forced captivity and exile.
  G. The nations' seventy years of servitude ended in 539 B.C.E. when Babylon fell to the Persians and Medes while the exiles were still in Babylon, thus bringing to a conclusion the servitude prophecy at Jeremiah 25:11, before the Jews returned home.
  
  H. The seventy years could not have ended when the exiles returned to Judah in 537 B.C.E. because there existed no king of Babylon to serve for two years between 537 B.C.E. and 539 B.C.E., after Persia began its reign in 539 B.C.E..
  
  I. The phrase "and all this land must become a devasted place, an object of astonishment" at Jeremiah 25:11 does not mean a) the land Judah, and Jerusalem, would exist without a single inhabitant, b) for a period of exactly 70 years, c) beginning with Jerusalem's destruction.
  
  J. The devastated condition of Judah does not mean it existed in that state without a single inhabitant.
  K. The devastation of Judah and Jerusalem at Jeremiah 25:11 referred to its devastated condition after Jerusalem's destruction and during the many years before that city fell.
  L. The Bible shows that Judah was "a devastated place, an object of astonishment" during the years leading up to Jerusalem's destruction.
  
  M. The fulfillment of the "devastations of Jerusalem [namely,] seventy years" at Daniel 9:2 refers to the end of Babylon's seventy years of world domination and the technical end of Jerusalem's devasted condition. It does not mean that Jerusalem - and by extension Judah - was devastated (without inhabitant) exactly seventy years.
  
  N. Further Reading and Acknowledgements
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  89

  Higher Education June 15th Watchtower 2011

  by jwfacts in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  "higher education: jesus warned against seeking your own glory.

  (john 7:18) whatever you decide as to how much secular education you will obtain, have you made sure of the more important things?phil.

  1:9,10.. grzegorz, the computer programmer, made some changes in his life.

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  jonathan dough

  http://www.144000.110mb.com/directory/jehovahs_witnesses_beliefs_higher_education_college.html
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  62

  June 15th WT, Trap Your Kids in the Cult

  by LostGeneration in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  the new wt is up.

  the worst article is the first one, a non-study article.

  shows pictures of a kid, looks like he is 10 years old.

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  jonathan dough

  http://144000.110mb.com/directory/jehovahs_witnesses_beliefs_baptism.html
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  40

  So… according to the Jun 15 WT, Jesus ransom sacrifice only applies to the “anointed class” a.k.a the GB.

  by onemore in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  ive noticed for a while now (especially at the assemblies) the frequent use of the term: jehovahs friends whenever they referr to the second class christian, ahem....great crowd, aka the non-anointed christian with earthly hope.

  even in some wt studies they often throw in phrases like seeking friendship with jehovah, our friend jehovah, etc.

  so, the subtle message is clear, the great crowd are not children of god, they are friends of god.

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  jonathan dough

  Great scriptures Stephen but they even have that covered by saying the greek scriptures were written for the annointed.

  They can say it, but they can't prove it. That would require too much, like proving the two-tiered salvation plan and that only 144,000 JWs go to heaven. They can't prove that the New Covenant only applies to the 144,000. The list is endless, their burdens of proof insurmountable.

  http://144000.110mb.com/144000/index.html
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  44

  What Was Meant By 'Abstain From Blood'?

  by headisspinning in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i have always been very hardcore about my aversion to blood and have never even considered the possibility that this was merely a dietary restriction.

  i always bought into the analogy of a doctor telling a patient to abstain from alcohol... it wouldn't matter whether this individual drank the alcohol or took it intravenously... it would all be in direct contradiction to the doctor's orders to 'abstain' from alcohol.. or the other analogy is to an apple pie... if you weren't to eat the pie, it would not be okay to separate it out into the main parts (or 'components)... ie.

  the flour, the apples, the sugar or the cinnamon... if they were taken from that pie, you were eating the pie.. so maybe you can see where the questions popped up for me.

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  jonathan dough

  Wealth of information on abstaining here.

  http://www.144000.110mb.com/directory/jehovahs_witnesses_beliefs_blood_transfusions.html

  The Jehovah's Witnesses' beliefs regarding the prohibition of blood transfusions becomes all the more heinous when it comes to young children, many of whom have died in furtherance of their parents' misguided beliefs. The blood transfusion prohibition is astounding in light of Jeremiah 32:35 which provides in part, "They built high places to Baal in the Valley of Ben-hinnom, and immolated their sons and daughters to Molech, bringing sin upon Judah; this I never commanded them, nor did it even enter my mind that they should practice such abomination." Here, God instructs man NOT to cause a child to be killed as a form of sacrifice to God. Clearly, sacrificing a child by denying him or her a needed blood transfusion is no different. In no way does such a denial of blood and the child's resulting death please the Almighty. It never entered God's mind.
  
  Any individual contemplating joining the Jehovah's Witnesses religion is forewarned to research this issue carefully, study the history and biblical context of the blood prohibition and understand what it means to not 'eat blood' because the Jehovahs Witnesses beliefs with respect to this gruesome act is not approved by the Almighty, finds no reliable support in scripture and comes close to being a homicide or a suicide. Avoid the anguish for everyone involved and think clearly on this matter. The Jehovah's Witnesses beliefs on blood transfusions are not to be taken lightly.
  
  jwfacts.com and ajwrb.org and marvinshilmer.blogspot.com are good beginnings.
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  31

  Apostasy and Df question

  by jam in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  speaking hypothetically, a elder can not except the logic on the.

  new understanding of the doctrine change (over lapping generation).. he voice his concern to his wife, she being a good jw , tell the elders.. the brother have not spoke to anyone in the cong.

  about his doubt.. the elders question him, he remains firm, he tell the brothers, i have.

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  jonathan dough

  While I might not have the answer, I'm certain you can find it here on this extensive directory of websites dedicated to the DF issues.

  http://www.144000.110mb.com/directory/shunning_disfellowshipped_shunning_disfellowshipping.html
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  7

  How To Attain Anointed Status?

  by Cold Steel in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  if i were a jehovah's witness, i would definitely want to be part of the anointed class.. if i were baptized into the religion and had answered all the questions correctly, how long would it take before i could claim anointed status?

  apparently if i claim status, i'm questioned by circuit representatives who either agree or disagree.

  i'm confused as to how someone would know they were of the heavenly class.

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  jonathan dough

  All true Christian believers are anointed.

  The concept of a literal 144,000 anointed Jehovah's Witnesses is a fabrication; there is no such thing.

  Proof: http://144000.110mb.com/144000/index.html

  http://www.144000.110mb.com/directory/jehovahs_witnesses_144000_144_000_heaven.html
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  382

  The Gentile Times Reconsidered

  by Spade in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  disproving the date 1914 as a significant year in bible prophecy is of great importance to some (e.g.

  carl o. jonsson).

  along with the meticulous details of bible and secular chronology, broadening one's horizons when assessing exactly what this date represents when compared against the 6000 years of human history likewise has merit.

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  jonathan dough

  Actually, Spade/Alice is absolutely right. Those Watchtower quotes are in fact sewage.
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  382

  The Gentile Times Reconsidered

  by Spade in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  disproving the date 1914 as a significant year in bible prophecy is of great importance to some (e.g.

  carl o. jonsson).

  along with the meticulous details of bible and secular chronology, broadening one's horizons when assessing exactly what this date represents when compared against the 6000 years of human history likewise has merit.

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  jonathan dough

  Spade: Opponents of Jehovah’s Witnesses like Carl O. Jonsson are often duplicitous as to their fundamental core beliefs,

  Actually, it's the Watchtower Society that has been proven to be duplicitous. Here is a great example provided by the superb website www.jwfacts.com
  http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/failed-1914-predictions.php:
  
  "One of the most misleading statements in Watchtower publications is that they accurately foretold 1914 to be the "start" of the conclusion of this system of things. In reality, 1914 had consistently been predicted to be the "end" of the system of things."
  What the Watchtower said prior to 1914
  "But bear in mind that the end of 1914 is not the date for the beginning, but for the end of the time of trouble. Zion's Watch Tower 1894 July 15 p.226 "
  
  "The year A.D. 1878, being the parallel of his assuming power and authority in the type, clearly marks the time for the actual assuming of power as King of kings, by our present, spiritual, invisible Lord...." Studies in the Scriptures - Thy Kingdom Come p.239
  What the Watchtower claims it said prior to 1914
  "Jehovah's witnesses pointed to the year 1914, decades in advance, as marking the start of "the conclusion of the system of things." Awake! 1973 January 22 p.8
  
  
  "The Watchtower has consistently presented evidence?that Jesus' presence in heavenly Kingdom power began in 1914. Events since that year testify to Jesus' presence. ? Jehovah's Witnesses have consistently shown from the Scriptures that the year 1914 marked the beginning of this world's time of the end and that "the day of judgment and of destruction of the ungodly men" has drawn near." Watchtower 1993 January 15 pp.5,9
  
  There are a dozen quotes similar to this on his website proving the deception.
  
  
  In other words, before 1914 the WTS said one thing, then when that proved false, after 1914 they denied having made the earlier claim.

  http://144000.110mb.com/607/i-6.html#L
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  96

  Jehovah Bled For YOU - To Receive YOUR Punishment (the wages of sin)

  by Perry in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  zech 12: 9,10 (jehovah is speaking).

  kjv - and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son.

  nasb - so that they will look on me whom they have pierced; and they will mourn for him, as one mourns for an only son.

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  jonathan dough

  JD-

  The Trinity is farsical theology.

  I guess we'll just have to wait and see.